Tabassum interviews SHANKER
PHOOL KHILE HAIN GULSHAN GULSHAN
Interview of Shankar (of Shankar Jaikishen duo) by Tabassum in this
Doordarshan programme recorded in 1986
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Interlude: ae gulbadan phoolon ki mahak (Professor)
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Tabassum: kisi bhi kali ko phool bankar mahakne ke liye kin raaston se guzarnaa paDtaa hai yeh aap achchhi tarah jaante hain. hamaare
aaj ke mehmaan ki kalaa kali se phool bankar kaise mehkee yeh unhi ki zabaani suniye. Shankar-ji!
Shankar: yeh baDaa achchha aapne poochha hai, hamaari zinddegi jo hai Prithvi Theatres se shuru huyi hai, aur aapko maaloom hai ki
us 'theatre' mein bahut kuchh seekhne ko milaa hai aur bahut kaam karne ko bhi milaa hai, aur usi ki badaulat jo hai, ham aaj hain.
Prithvi Theatre hamesha jab 'tour' pe baahar jaaya karta tha, tab kuchh na kuchh ham 'extra' kaam bhi kiya karte the, kaise kaam ke
baad kisi bhi shahar mein koi gaane bajaane waale mil jaate to main unko pakaDke le aata tha kyunki wahaan ke jitne 'artistes' hain woh
thak jaate the 'drama' ke baad, to mujhse naaraaz hote the ki 'yaar yeh kahin na kahin se kuchh na kuchh karta hai, kisi na kisi ko
pakaDkar le aata hai'. to meri aadat thi gaana bajaana sunna aur usse kuchh haasil karna, to papaji ko yeh bahut pasand tha...
Tabassum: Prithviraj-ji ko?
Shankar: Prithviraj-ji ko, kyunki woh 'classical' vagerah mein woh bahut shauk rakhte the. isi tareeke se ham logon ke har 'tour' par
kahin na kahin se aise 'programme' huya karte the....(interrupts)
Tabassum: main gustaaKhi ki maafi chaahti hoon aapne yeh naheen bataaya ki aapne Prithvi Theatres mein shuruwaat kaise kee?
Shankar: o ho ho, jab main Bambai aaya, tab mujhe papaji, ek 'Deodhar Music School' hai, wahaan unke darshan huye, jab maine
unko dekhaa aisa lagta tha ki waaqai yeh itne Khoobsoorat 'hero' shaayad hi koi ho saktaa hai. unki khoobsoorti aur 'personality' jo
thi, usko dekhkar hi main Khaamosh ho gaya. main to chhoTaa sa... to maine unse poochha, mujhe maaloom tha ki papaji us waqt
Shakuntala 'drama' shuru karnewaale the. to maine unse poochha ki 'papaji, aap hamein kaam denge kya?' unhone poochha 'kya karte
hain?' maine kahaa ki main tablaa bahut achchhi bajaata hoon aur 'harmonium' bhi bahut achchha bajaata hoon, thoDaa bahut 'dance'
bhi karta hoon, aur 'stage' par agar koi chhoTe moTe 'dialogues' hon to woh bhi main bol saktaa hoon.
Tabassum: All rounder (laughs)
Shankar: All rounder! to unko yeh bahut achhi lagi baat, to unhone Dadar mein, aapne sunaa hoga ki woh 'music' ke sittings vagerah
waheen kiya karte the. to bulaaya waheen pe ek din. saahab, do 'rehearsal hall' the, wahaan baDe baDe kalaakaar baiThe huye the.
to un kalaakaaron ko dekhkar main soch mein paD gaya ki main to kuchh bhi naheen hoon in logon ke saamne. to phir mujhse poochhe
ki 'tablaa sunaaoge kya?' maine kahaa aap ijaazat den to zaroor sunaayunga. ittefaaq ne Ali Akbar saahab bhi wahaan the, to 'Ali
Akbar saahab ke saath aap bajaayenge kya?' mane bolaa 'Theek hai, pehle do 'minute' main 'solo' bajaa loon phir aapke saath sangat
karoonga'. maine do-chaar 'minute' jo 'solo' bajaaya, saare logon ne itni pasand kee hai, itni taaliyaan bajaaye zor zor se.
Tabassum: aur Prithvi Theatres mein aapke kadam jam gaye (laughs)
Shankar: kadam jam gaye, aur waheen se zindegi shuru hoti rahi. Theatre mein jaate rahe, to ittefaaq se Raj saahab ne 'picture'
shuru kiya Barsat, Raj saahab hamein gaane banaakar rakhne ke liye kehte the. aise hamne kai gaane banaa liye the. jab unhone phir se
kahaa gaane banaane ke liye to hamne kahaa ki 'aap gaane banwaate hain par kabhi lete to hain naheen!' ittefaaq se ham Poona gaye
the 'theatre' ke saath, to raat ka waqt hai, ek dhun hai suniye aur dekhiye kaisi lagti hai, bhaiya mat leejiye par sun, gaana maine
woh "ambua ka peD hai, gori munDher hai, aaja more baalma, ab kaahe ko der hai", sunaaya. jaise sunaaya to bole ki 'bas ab Bambai chalte
hain aur is gaane ko 'record' karte hain. is baar Bambai aane baad woh 'seriously' gaane ke peechhe lag gaye. to gaane ke liye Hasrat
miya likhne ke liye aaye.
Tabassum: to Hasrat bhai ne us dhun par bol kaun se likhe?
Shankar: "jiya bekaraar hai, chhayi bahaar hai, aaja more baalma, tera intezaar hai".
Tabassum: oh ho, yeh to bahut lokpriya gaana tha, Shankar-ji, ek sangeetkaar yahaan baiThe huye hain, aur saaz bhi maujood hai, to
aapki maujoodgi aur saaz ke hone ka faayda uThaate huye main farmaaish karoon ki 'ambua ka peD hai' 'jiya bekaraar hai' kaise
banaa hai?
Shankar sings "jiyaa bekaraar hai..."
Tabassum: Shankar-ji, aaj jab ham kehte hain ki Shankar-ji aa gaye to log poochhte hain ki 'kaun Shankar-Jaikishen ki joDi waale?' kya
main yeh jaan sakti hoon ki yeh Shakar Jaikishen ki joDi kaise banee?
Shankar: yeh to aisa hai ki jab main 'theatre' mein kaam kiya karta tha to ek 'harmonium' bajaanewaale ki zaroorat thi, to maine
Jaikishen-ji ko wahaan kaam ke liye le aaya. jab laaya to unko papaji ne rakh liya, bas uske saath hamaari yeh joDi jo banee hai,
jaise barsaat shuru huyi hai, aaj tak barsaat hi barsaat hoti rahi hai.
Tabassum: bahut Khoob!
Shankar: dono jab milkar kaam karte the kabhi yeh naheen sochaa ki woh kar raha hai ya main kar raha hoon, aisi kabhi hamaare dimaag
mein Khayaal naheen aaye, hamesha yahi sochkar karte the ki hamaara naam honaa chaahiye, hamein kaamyaabi milna chaahiye, Khoob duniya
mein hamaari charche hona chaahiye, yahi dil mein hamaari...
Tabassum: yeh maqsad mein to kaamyaabi mil hi gaya! achchha Shankar-ji, jaise Shankar Jaikishen ki joDi mashoor ho gayi, isi tarah
do 'writers' bhi aapke saath juDe huye hain, Shailendra-ji aur Hasrat Jaipuri-ji. kya ham jaan sakte hain ki in dono 'writers' ka
istemaal aaplog kaise karte the? aisa kuchh tha ki ek'writer' aapke saath aur ek Jaikishen-ji ke saath?
Shankar: naheen aisa kuchh naheen, baat aisi hai ki Shailendra ke 'type' ke gaane jo hain woh ham Shailendra ko diya karte the, aur
Hasrat ke 'type' ke gaane hasrat ko diya karte the.
Tabassum: main dono ke 'type' ka farak jaanna chaahoon to?
Shankar: jee haan! matlab, jaise Shailendra jo hain "honThon pe sachchai rehti hai jahaan dil mein safaai rehti hai hum us desh ke
vaasi hain jis desh mein gangaa behti hai" aur Hasrat ka hai "teri pyari pyari soorat ko kisi ki nazar na lage chashm-e-baddoor".
Tabassum: achchha, yaani in mein 'romance' zyaada hai.
Shankar: waise yeh dono hi ek doosre se koi kam naheen the aur main samajhta hoon ki indono ne jitna naam kiya aur inke gaane jitne
chale, shaayad hi kisi aur ke chale honge
Tabassum: ab aap yeh bhi hamein bataayen ki jab aap filmi duniya mein aaye us waqt yahaan ki mashoor mashoor aawaazen kaun si thi?
Shankar: us waqt to mere khayaal se Shamshad-baai theen, Zohrabai Ambalewali, Amirbai Karnataki, aur Rajkumari, aur Khursheed,
Suraiyya, aur Noorjehan bhi theen. to aise baDe baDe gaanewaale the. lekin ham ek din "Jupiter Studio' mein main gaya tha to ek laDki ko
maine wahaan dekhaa jo Husnlal-ji ke wahaan apni aawaaz sunaane ke liye aayeen theen.
Tabassum: Husnlal Bhagatram?
Shankar: jee haan! 'great' log the. to wahaan par apni aawaaz sunaaya inhone, to unhone pasand naheen kiya aur waapas bhej diya.
mere dimaag mein naheen maaloom woh aawaaz kyun rahi, kya hai, jab yeh gaana maine Barsat ka banaaya "jiya beqaraar hai", tab us laDki
ko maine bulaaya. achchha jab bulaaya tab aap samjhengi naheen ki yeh laDki gaana gaayegi ya gaa sakti hai, aisi kuchh baaten unmein
nazar naheen aa rahi thi.
Tabassum: main aapse yahi sawaal karne jaa rahi thi ki jab us zamaane ki mashoor aawaazon ko na lete huye aapne yeh gaana Lataji
se gawaane ka faislaa kyun kiya?
Shankar: naamwaale to hain hi lekin us waqt dimaag mein mere yeh aaya ki main Khud naya hoon, zindegi ka kuchh Thikaana naheen tha,
lekin maine us laDki ke aawaaz ko pasand kiya, isiliye pasand kiya kyunki mere dimaag mein tha ki yeh gaayegi, usko ek gaane ke liye le
aaye hain, woh hain Lata Mangeshkar!
Tabassum: main yeh jaanna chaahoongi ki us waqt sangeetkaaron ka aur gaayakon ka aapas mein 'relation' kaisa huya karta tha?
Shankar: us waqt bahut achchha tha.
Tabassum: bilkul guru-shishya ki tarah?
Shankar: guru aur shishya ki tarah, ek doosre ka aadar karna, doosre ko maan dena, chhoTe baDe ka khayaal karna, yeh sab cheezen thi
aur 'music director'-on mein bhi pyar tha aur ek doosre se milna-julna, bahut achchha tha.
Tabassum: Shankar-ji, aapne 'playback' ki duniya mein aur bhi to bahut si aawaazen ataa keeye hain?
Shankar: haan! C H Atma ko jab ham le aaye to Pancholi saahab ki kya 'position' aur kya unki 'glamour' thi. us waqt unke saamne, woh
itne lambe the ki main ek chhoTa sa jhaaD ke neeche khaDa hoon aisa lagta tha, to unhone poochha ki 'arey tum to abhi naye naye aaye ho
aur naye naye logon se gawaa rahe ho!' maine bolaa 'Pancholi saahab, ham naye hain isiliye gawaana hai'. to woh bole ki 'tumhare himmat
ki dad dena chaahiye, tum naye hokar Khud naye ko gawaa rahe ho'. to aapne sunaa hoga C H Atma ko, to C H Atma ko gawaa diya hai to woh
bhi chal gaya hai, to aise hi kitne...
Tabassum: Sharda ji ki aawaaz mein aisi kaun si Khoobi aur Khaas baat thi jo aapne unhe 'chance' diya?
Shankar: jaise Lata ko hamne laaya, hamne koi Khoobi to naheen dekhaa usmein, waise ismein bhi hamne koi achchhi baaten dekhi hogi
jo le aaye, Sharda ki aawaaz mein jo hai ek apna Dhang sabse baDaa niraala tha.
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Song: dekho mera dil machal gaya (Suraj)
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Tabassum: 'glamour' ki duniya se taallukh rakhne waale har mashoor aadmi ke baare mein uske darshak zyaada se zyaada jaankaari haasil
karna chaahte hain aur kaafi baaten unhe maaloom bhi ho jaati hai lekin Shankar-ji, aapke parivaar ke baare mein, aapki 'family' ke
baare mein logon ko aaj tak zyada 'detail' naheen maaloom huyi. iski vajah?
Shankar: aisa hai, jo aadmi 'film line' mein 37 'years' guzaarta hai aur is line ki ek ek baat maaloom hai ki kaisa filmline hai, kaise
log hain, kaise baat karte hain, to main yeh galati kaise kar saktaa hoon ki apni 'family' ko film-line mein le aayun!
Tabassum: (laughs)
Shankar: jahaan ka kaam waheen karo achchha hai, is museebat mein kyun Daalo, ham jo paD gaye museebat mein woh to waqt ki baat hai,
achchha kaam keeye isliye nazar aa rahe hain warna to yahaan kitne aaye kitne chale gaye.
Tabassum: kisi bhi gaane ke liye pehli cheez 'situation', uske baad bol aur teesra 'number' aata hai dhun ka. logon ka yeh Khayaal hai,
aap isse kahaan tak sehmat hain?
Shankar: aisa hai ki ham log pehle dhun banaate hain.
Tabassum: yaani ki teesri cheez jo kahee hamne, woh aapke liye pehli hai.
Shankar: jee haan! isiliye ki usse lay banta hai. naya 'rhythm' banta hai, naya Dhang banta hai, aur usse likhnewaale ke liye bhi
lay aur 'style' alag ho jaata hai. usse kya hota hai ki samjho 'writer' jo hai ya daadra hotaa hai ya roopak hotaa hai ya
keherbaan, yeh teen cheezen hi hoti hai unke liye, to usko likhne ke baad gaana agar ham len to ghazal ek jaisa hi hogaa, usey badalna
baDa mushkil ho jaayega.
Tabassum: 'variety' naheen aayegi!
Shankar: jee haan! isliye jaise maatre hain (sings & explains rhythm), to yeh wazan 'writer' ko kaise aayega? jaise (sings) "kaise
jaanoo, kaise maanoo, aaja aaja", to yeh rhythm jo hai ispe jab bol aayenge to gaana alag ho jaayega. isliye hamen aadat ho gayi
hai 'tune' pe gaane banaana, lekin isse likhnewaale baDi takleef hoti hai, 'meter' pe likhna paDta hai.
Tabassum: 'rhythm' pe likhna?
Shankar: jee haan, kyunki shaayar sochta hai ki kaise laayen ham bol, ismein 'rhythm' TooT-ta hai, unko baDi pareshaani hoti hai
lekin aakhir woh gaana achchha banta hai.
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Song: geet gaata hoon main (Lal Patthar)
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Tabassum: Shankar-ji, aap yeh mehsoos naheen karte ki shaayar ko agar itni 'freedom' dee jaaye ki woh 'meter' pe na likhke woh pehle
gaana likhe to unke 'thoughts' ki uDaan aur oonchee hoti?
Shankar: naheen, to usmein hamaari zindegi mein achchhe gaane bahut achchhe hote hain lekin woh 'meter' jo hai logon tak pahunchta
naheen, log yaad naheen karte usey. hamaare kam se kam 100 gaano mein 75 gaane 'rhythm' pe likhe gaye hain, vazan par likhe huye hain.
Tabassum: yaani, bolon ki taareef ho jaati par gaane zabaan par chaDhta naheen.
Shankar: chaDhta naheen!
Tabassum: achchha to aage baDhne se pehle ek gaana woh bhi dikhaa den, pehle bol aur baad mein dhun?
Shankar: jee haan, jee haan!
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Song: ja ja ja mere bachpan kahin jaa ke chhup naadaan (Junglee)
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Tabassum: gaana banne ke baad aawaaz ka intekhaab aap karte hain ya aapke 'producer' aur 'director'?
Shankar: aaj tak to ham hi logon ne kiya hai, ham hi pasand karte hain aur apni hi pasand se aawaaz, aur isliye is kaam mein
imaandaari hai bahut, hamne apna matlab kabhi naheen dekhaa, na apna matlab sochaa hai, agar apnamatlab sochte to shaayad itne saal
yahaan chalte bhi naheen, iska sawaal hi naheen hai, lekin aajkal jo waqt aa gaya hai woh waqt aisa aaya hai jo ki aaj 'music director'-
on ki kuchh naheen chalti hai, na koi 'music director' ko samajhta hai, log samajhte hain ki ham jo 'ideas' laaye hain usko banaao aur
banaakar hamko do to sabse achchha hai. to aaj aap dekh rahe hain ki kya ho raha hai 'music' ka shay, 'music' ka to satyaanaash hi ho
raha hai.
Tabassum: to gaana banne ke baad aawaaz aap Khud hi pasand karte hain
Shankar: jee!
Tabassum: to usmein kabhi aapne 'variety' dene ki koshish kee? jaise Raj kapoor-ji ke saath juDe huye the Mukesh-ji, to aapne kabhi yeh
koshish naheen kee ki Mukesh-ji ke alaawa Raj Kapoor-ji ke chehre ke liye kisi aur se gawaaya jaaye?
Shankar: Manna Dey ko gawaaya, aur aisa koi zaroori naheen ki Mukesh hi gaaye, Manna Dey ne bhi gaaya hai Raj Kapoor ke liye, jaisa gaana
banta hai uske hisaab se hamne gawaaye.
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Song: chham chham baaje re paayaliya (Mere Huzoor)
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Tabassum: aap apne sangeet mein shastriya sangeet ka bhi bahut istemaal karte hain. iski koi Khaas vajah?
Shankar: Khaas vajah yahi hai ki hamne seekha hi shastriya sangeet pehle hai. sabse pehle shree ganeshaay namah jo ham kehte hain wahi
hai. pehle hamne 'classical music' seekha hai, uske baad hi saara 'music' aaya hai hamko. varna jiski buniyaad hi mazboot naheen
hai, main samajhta hoon woh kaise logon ko yaad rahega?
Tabassum: lekin 'film-line' ke log jo bahut achchhi tarah kareeb se aap logon ko jaante hain woh kehte hain ki jo 'classical' waale
gaane the unhe Jaikishen-ji banaate the aur aap 'western touch' liye huye...
Shankar: aisa naheen hai
Tabassum: kya ham jaan sakte hain ki kaam ko anjaam aap kaise dete the?
Shankar: zaroor zaroor, aisa hai ki agar main mar jaata aur Jaikishen reh jaata to ussey bhi yahi sawaal kiya jaata.
Tabassum: (laughs)
Shankar: to bataaiye, sawaal to yahi hotaa, aisa naheen hai, 'classical' woh bhi jaante the, 'classical' main bhi jaanta
tha, lekin milkar jo kaam hota hai, maine 'classical' par hi zyaada mehnat kiya hai aur 'dance' vagerah ke jitne baDe baDe 'number'
dekhe hain aapne woh takreeban maine hi usko anjaam diya hai.
Tabassum: achchha to kabhi aisa bhi huya ki ek gaane mein mukhDa aapka ho aur antara unkaa ho?
Shankar: jee haan!
Tabassum: aisa bhi huya hai?
Shankar: jaise "pyar huya ikraar huya". ismein jhagDaa bhi bahut huya, woh dil mein kabhi koi baat naheen rakhte the.
Tabassum: achchha Shankar-ji, log yeh mehsoos karte hain ki Jaikishen-ji ke baad film jagat mein aapka naam bhi kam nazar aane
lag gaya hai.
Shankar: uski vajah hai. aapko issey pehle bhi maine batlaaya, jaise ki aajkal ke waqt mein ek achchha aadmi jo naam kiya hai, achchha
waqt dekhaa hai, to aise kaam ke liye kisi ke ghar jaana, kisi ki Khushaamad karna, yeh main samajhta hoon ki be-izzati hai, insaan
agar shaan se kaam karna ho to Theek hai kaam ka muqaabla keejiye na, kaam agar achchha chaahiye to ham hain, chaahe aaj ho, aaj se 25
saal pehle ka kaam ho to waisa agar kaam karna ho to ham karke dikhaa sakte hain aur aaj bhi hamaara 'music', jo bhi hamne kiya
hai, aaj ke gaano se bhi zyaada hamaare gaano ka 'rhythm' aaj bhi utna 'fast' hai.
Tabassum: achchha Shankar-ji yeh bataaiye ki kisi bhi film ki kaamyaabi ke liye uske 'music' ka kitna baDaa haath hota hai?
Shankar: 50% hota hai, zaroor. aaj tak 'history' dekh leejiye aap, jo bhi 'picture'-en chalee 'music' ke upar hi chalee.
Tabassum: aapne beshumaar gaane banaaye hain pichhle 37 saalon mein, ham yeh jaan sakte hain ki aapko apni kaun si dhun sabse zyada
achchhi lagi aur kyun?
Shankar: ab yeh to sawaal aisa hai ki maa ko agar poochhen ki tumhari saare bachchon mein kaunsa bachcha sabse achchha hai to
kaise bol sakti hain bataaiye na!
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Song: zindegi ek safar hai suhaana (Andaaz)
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THE END
